WomensSpace

[anniejoan]

hi hi to everyone!

I have been following this discussion along, have remained silent, and now wish to express my thoughts and feelings.

This has been an emotional roller coaster for many these past few days, myself included. As I type, I try to not get all teary, and it is my hope that I can express my thoughts honestly, without offending, and I also hope that I can offer positive suggestions.

First and foremost I want to thank Melynn, Tammy, the AFC's and all the Hosts who work so hard to make this forum what it is. I cannot even begin to imagine the tremendous amount of effort and time it takes to keep this forum going. And all volunteer work. I thank you from the bottom of my heart because without you, there would be no Forum.

Two years ago I could not have imagined that I'd ever be online, posting on message boards and talking in chat rooms! But I found this wonderful WOW and I can't imagine not being here now. What has become so apparent to me is that the people on the other side of my screen are as real in here as they are in 3D life. What happens in our rooms and on these boards is exactly what we also experience in 3D life.

Having said that, I offer this set of guidelines for myself:

- I understand that I will not like everyone I meet online, but I respect their right to disagree.

- I will choose to use my ignore button rather than disrupt the room when someone is particularily bothering me.

- I will not open another room nor go to another room. I respect others rights to do that.( But I also respect my right to be angered by those who have done that and then have the audacity to park themselves in the WOW rooms and complain.) I love our rooms and am staying put.

- I will, upon entering a chat, listen first to see what the topic is and then join in if I wish, or, if I don't I will take my off topic discussion into 1/1.

- I will applaud and cheer on and support anyone who is struggling to make positive changes in their lives.

- I will give hugs and an empathetic ear to anyone who has befallen a tragedy or who is going through an unexpected rough patch. But I also will respect my right to turn a deaf ear to those who have nothing but complaints and moans and groans. There is a huge difference between the two.

- I will warmly welcome newbies into the room and help them as they learn how to chat. I will make them feel warm, welcomed and wanting to return.

- I will respect, honor and follow the guidelines of this forum, both on these boards and in our rooms.

That's what I've come up with for now. I invite others to add positive suggestions to my list above.

((((((( Melynn and her team ))))))))

(((((( roomies who are my friends )))))

[Cod]

What I want to know is...

WHAT IS THE END OF THAT QUOTE???

Tammy is it something like..."it's your choice whether to climb on board or not"????

Help me.....

[susieB28]

Oh my....

Ok, well I guess I can be considered a part of the morning crew, and I, personally, have not seen anyone newbies run off. Most of us want newbies, and remember when we were one.

As, for my previous post and your rebuttal to it Tammy, if you were in the room, then I am sure you would have seen, that the only reason I became aggitated was because I felt a very down roomie was being brought down further, when she had only come in for a little support from her online friends. Unfortunately, I dont see that roomie in the room much anymore

And, I know that this room is not a support room per se , I have always known that, but I also do think that as women, we should try to help someone up when they are down, not push them down further... Just cause we can, not because this is a "support room" and we are supposed to.

About us complaining about the server, and the creating another room on it, you have a valid point. I think the complaining about the server, has been mostly me, and it was someone else entirely who created the other room. I certainly got there, but if I had chosen to create another room myself, I would have choose another server. I go into that room cause that is where everyone is.

And, as for the proper forum for complaints/suggestions, etc., I think this forum is a great one! It involves us all, and we can all have our say, how can that be bad.


In closing, I must say, there are still many wonderful things about WOW, not the least of which are the awesome roomies, I think the majority of us would agree on that.

susie

[RazberrieTart]

Oh gosh.... So much to say.... no idea where to begin. 'shaking head" Everyone has said basically the same things... So I will try to keep this short and simple. First off with the whole LS'ers belong in LS and WS'ers belong is WS... Nah. We all.. ALL have friends in both rooms.. But don't merge the rooms. Bad idea. Let ppls come and go as they choose. GOOD idea. Chill, no one's out for a toaster oven on the LS side.
Tammy, Tammy, Tammy, you had to go there... tsk tsk tsk I would have thought better of you. Glaring errors then. I said Aw Geeeeeeez no oh geez and no it is not "every time you come in" I did so for whaa week ? maybe ? It got old. Juvenile ? Ohhh right, I am 23, I am one of the youngest roomies..... Yup I am juvenile. Coloring ? Sure, once in a while. Waving my macros ? Beacuse I have a far too contentious nature and you bring out the worst in me. Reporting to the proper channels ? I was laughing when I read that. Yeah, right, like you or anyone is going to chastise your sweetie for her actions. I can remember incidents (oh no, dredging up the past !!) where various ppls were offended or whatnot by your sweetie and I know for a fact one who DID report her to you. Big surprise not a thing was done. They do not have confidence in that means of reporting grievances. Hence... The Public Boards! But that is 'old' things, was just a tad of the reaoning used by some to come here with what was bothering them.
Point blank. I don't like you. And I know you don't like me either. Get over yourself already and read your logs more thoroughly. I'd rather ignore you than be baited into an argument with you but well since you DID have to go and be the one first slinging direct insults ... The only good thing I can think of (since we are striving for positives) is I am glad I never have to meet you.
Side note, you know what one of my favorite macros was ? the one WOWs had in TC (and no we are not moving back there) That said "welcome to wow..." (favorite line) "lets watch what we say cause little eyes may be watching" That is why I recommended WOW way back when to ppls. We don't need to be as stringent at things, I know a lot wanted more freedom, but it needs to be tempered with a little common sense. I am no saint. I never pretend to be. I am not innocent. I go with the flow, I respond to what is said in the room. I will be the first to admit I have said things that... back then... would have been a bootable or at east a warnable offense. But I do think if we could go back to that in a way, try on everyone's part to clean up the rooms.
Oh.. As far as the morning crew goes, chasing off newbies, I have been in a few times, more so recently, and any newbies I had seen were welcomed. A chat to air all this out ? Good idea in theory. Maybe it can be worked out and be beneficial. The DM server is OK, but yes I can see where some would be confused with the content of the server and the content of the rooms. Its just a server, it doesnt matter what rooms are on it, you find the room you want and you chat there. It is quieter, which for the most part ppls do like, but everyone enjoys meeting new ppls, and its true we don't have as many new ones joining. The word is out there, give it time to grow.
I am gonna preempt everyone who is now going to pepper me with "then why the heck do you even come and chat in here?" Because... I have friends I have made in both rooms who I will come in to chat with and I will not just up and leave and never come back, I'm way too bullheaded. And with that, I think I have covered everything that I wanted to... Now to just click "submit"..

Please don't slam me just because I choose to chat using different nicks. But this one I so wanted to use for a long time. I, like many, wish to remain silent, no longer.

Firstly, I bring greetings and salutations from as near and far as your next online message to each and everyone of you, whether friend or foe.

I am a former host from a bygone era. I miss my former uniform for it showed the world how much I loved to chat and so wanted to volunteer any help I could to others. When I left I had a personal telephone invite from the Boss herself stating "the door is always open for you to come back". I tried to come back last year. I re-applied to proudly wear my newly Dry-Cleaned uniform, but to date, am still waiting for an email to officially welcome or decline me. "None of your business" I hear you saying. Isn't it? am I not a roomie too? Is not my opinion of any value like yours whether I have an @ before my nick or not?

I KNOW what it is like to have positive and negative comments/emails/posts aimed at myself, colleagues and fellow roomies alike. Please, I implore you to STOP this bickering, baiting, verbal bashing, back-stabbing and all the other B's I can think of and help bring the WOW rooms back around onto her former path of Chat, Fun, Recreation, Play and FRIENDSHIPS.

I have many friends from past and present WOW. My life has changed for the better, because of WOW and all I chat with. Isn't that a fantastic, positive statement to be able to make?

THANK YOU WOW for befriending me when I needed a friend.
THANK YOU WOW for giving me this space to air MY comments.

If you don't like what you see or hear - Move on.

[nunzy]

hi all

i have just spent the past few hours reading some of the posts. i try to be an honest and a good roomie and love alot of the roomies like sisters. i have learned from past mistakes to just keep my mouth shut. as you will notice there are sometimes i just lurk in the room that is because sometimes i am scared to open my mouth. i know that things will be taken the wrong way or disagreed with by someone so i sit quietly.i keep coming back to ws hoping that i will feel the same warm feeling i used to when chatting. feeling like you dont belong is not a good feeling at all. i just want everyone to be themselves and hopefully make and keep some friends along the way .
nunzy

[TammyWOW]

Sally, one reply was sent for your application and one closely linked to it, on October 12, 2001. If you want to forward me current email addresses, I'll be happy to resend that reply.

[Cod]

Oooh...I'm feeling someone is turning this into the "It's All About Me" folder.

Could be the problem in the chatroom too.

ANYWAY.....what's the end of that quote??? You're torturing me Tammy!

[WA114]

Admonish, rebuke, reprove, reproach, reprimand...

It's time to add a new word to the list: rebuild.

I've read this thread for a while and kept my mouth shut, but it's time I got a few things off my chest.

Firstly, having moderated a board myself for over a year, I applaud the restraint and patience exhibited here by the Mods and a handful of exemplary posters. But here I'm comparing apples to oranges. The board I ran did not have near the traffic this one does, and even so, I was called everything from b*tch to nazi and accused of running a fascist state. Regardless of the size of any forum, rules must exist. Leadership's decisions may not always be necessarily popular, but if that leadership is conscientious and responsible, it's a given those decisions will be done with all users' best interest in mind; that is, in the name of keeping everyone safe and the focus of discussions forward moving and productive. I am sure that despite these growing pains, this continues to be the aim of WOW.

The fact that this discussion has continued--and without censure, I might add--is, in my view, a positive. Moderation is not an easy task at the best of times, and those who work diligently to keep these boards alive have my support and gratitude.

More on the subject of self-empowerment. To depend on WOWs, whether they appear in uniform or are lurking in regular attire, I believe takes away from the empowerment and assuredness we can proudly stand on ourselves. A non-remunerated job such as host or moderator is draining, exhausting, and often thankless. When WOWs are out of uniform, I respect that they want to enjoy that off time. Lord knows they've more than earned it. That said, I think anniejoan's previous post outlines a sound set of guidelines by which we should adhere. And these are the same guidelines the WOWs touted at TC, if memory serves.

There is absolutely nothing preventing anyone from exercising the freedom of decision with which they've been blessed. By that I mean that if someone is baiting or being offensive, there is nothing keeping you from flatly ignoring them. Why look to WOWs to empower you when that empowerment is a keystroke away? Sadly--or not--there are some on my ignore list who have been there a while. When I've felt brave, their names have been stricken, and it's only been a matter of a few sentences before their offensive behaviors have warranted their being put right back on there. And there they will stay. I'm not saying this to gloat, but rather to further underscore the fact that I am thankful to have made such decisions myself and without dependence on the WOWs--suited or not.

The other face of that coin is this: to "tolerate" someone simply because the rules state such isn't necessarily appropriate either. This can be done respectfully. While it's true not everyone will always agree, it's important to remember that debates and disagreements can play out relatively amicably. Baiting, waving flags, and the drawing of battle lines and daring opponents (real or imagined) to cross them is counter-productive and achieves nothing. Frankly, it's exasperating and emotionally draining--as much to any outside observers as to the participants themselves.

Furthermore, I realize perhaps I've occasionally been vocal. I concede I'm no saint, but I am of the opionion that complaints should be made discreetly, but again, this is my view only. I cannot speak for anyone else in this instance.

Similarly, any administrative decisions should be made behind closed doors. To speculate about any decisions made is inappropriate, in my opinion. I wouldn't demand, ask, or otherwise expect the details to be disclosed--whether to me or to anyone else. As I see it, it isn't protectionism. If the guy in the mailroom was let go, the gossip heard around the water cooler represents only one side of the story. To all things, there are usually three sides: his side, the boss's side, and a middle ground that establishes the real truth based on the truth of each. Why would WOW be any different?

It's also important to realize that perhaps not everyone is blessed with sound health or education and that perhaps not everyone is a native speaker of English. Who has never made a typographical error? Come on, now. Some comments I read here recently left me rather offended and to those who choose to focus on proper grammar and so openly disdain broken English, I say: take the time to consider just what shoe the speaker or writer is wearing. There are some whose written English is broken not for the fact they are illiterate or ill-educated, but rather for illness, injury or other circumstances your blatant ignorance hasn't motivated you to uncover. In the case of muscular degeneration, for example, the very task of typing is excruciating. For those who make the effort to string together a few [seemingly disparate] words or [seemingly incoherent] thoughts despite that pain, kudos. I believe everyone has something worthwhile to say; it may not be immediately apparent, but the effort to look further is not a superhuman one, in my view. Take the time. It's almost guaranteed you'll be pleasantly surprised and glad you did.

As for the server's being the principal reason the rooms are empty, I offer the following. It's been said that WOW has made itself known on over 8300 websites. Surely if someone is savvy enough or steadfast enough--if they use a search engine or surf at all--they will find WOW. My concern, however, is whether this thread may deter any newcomers to our room...

Chances are this post leaves me wide open to admonishment, reprove, rebuke, reprimand and reproach. All I ask is that you carefully consider what each of these means and respond appropriately.

Thank you.

[Cod]

Are you open to a little REspect? You've got mine. You made some great comments in that well thought out post WA.

I share your concern that newcomers may decide to "stay clear".

There are so many more wonderful people connected with WOW, who don't share the sentiments that have been expressed here in this thread. I would encourage everyone to trust their own thoughts and feelings and judgement and be careful not to be swayed by the words of others.

[WA114]

Cod:

The BS theory of public speaking and essay writing: Be Succinct (well, okay, that one went to hell in my post), Be Sincere, and Be Simple.

What can I offer in response to your kind words but a little BS: thank you.

[quail]

May I quote:
From Tammy: "I have put up with Razberrie_Tart and her juvenile behavior..."
Also: "If you want to learn, discuss, and grow as a woman (which is what this forum is about) then you better be prepared to take a stand, to hear the sides of discussion that are not the same as your view, and to not throw a temper tantrum and stomp around the room (boards?) because someone disagreed with you."
And Tammy's last post: "...But you probably won't find that, or the remaineder of the sentence, in 5-year-old message board posts."
Further:
From topsinapod: "It's time to set aside taunting and baiting..."
From janpo1: "Bashing is not my style on or off the boards~ ..."

First, let me address Tammy's last post. I stated once I am not an ex-WOW. I don't have access to email, meetings, logs of meetings past, or the "meow" folders, although I have heard some of what goes on there (yet I choose to chat here anyway). And if I ever saw that quote I don't remember it now.
Second, two of the concerns that have cropped up time and again are baiting and personal attacks. It is not supposed to be tolerated in WOW. I can't help but notice the incongruity of the policy and the actions of the forum coordinator. I as a forum coordinator would be embarrassed to have displayed the type of behavior publicly denounced by my own staff.

More quotes:
From shana: "...bravo to Tammy for coming to some sort of honesty with all this."
Finally.
And: "....unless you are privy to all that goes on then I don't think you should just take one side." <---If one is not privy to *all* that goes on, what other side is there to take? Are we not allowed to voice an opinion? And if not, what the heck are these message boards here for? Or the room? In chat, all you can DO is talk. That pretty much narrows down the options.

One extra note...I've noticed Rabblerouser has been strangely silent during this exchange, which leads a few of us to believe that she is a higher-echelon WOW who has Tammy's implicit if not explicit approval to incite the masses.

Nevertheless, the loyalty the WOWs show is admirable, something I've always appreciated. It's hard to find staff like that in the "real" world. However...seeing this attempt at discussion degenerating quickly to a junior-high level, I guess there's nothing left for me to say. Whatever else I've garnered from discussions with roomies, and my own personal feelings, will have to remain unsaid. I don't care to watch the young lady flounder in a fit of rage...it's kind of embarrassing to witness. Tammy, I wish you Godspeed, and although you'll probably resent the Christian overtones of that phrase it doesn't lessen the sentiment.

[DLC55]

quail, I don't know about anyone else, but I find it highly insulting that you post under a nic no one seems to know, yet you know an awful lot about WOW. Why hide?

[pennylynne]

It was suggested to me that I come to the boards and read what has been said, so I did. My goodness, there sure are alot of comments, suggestions, and other thoughts going on. That is fine, I like hearing different opinions. If my own opinions arent welcome, that's ok too.

I realize that not all chatters are going to get along with each other or even pretend to become friends. When I go into WS, I know that I am welcome, if ever I dont feel welcome, I leave.
There have been times that I have had my feelings hurt in chat, who hasnt right? So when that happens, I either leave, or depending on what hurt my feelings in the first place, I ask to go into that persons whisper and we talk about it. I would much rather work out a problem with the person who has hurt me than walk around and tell everybody else either what that person did or said,or to stab them in the back. Back stabbing gets a person nowhere.

I know for myself, that if I have ever had a problem in WS, all I have to do is go to the hosting WOW and tell her what is wrong. The WOW will either talk to me to calm me down, or if needed, will go to the other person and make things as right as she possibly can.

As for the server, Im not sure how many times WS has moved over the past 5 years that I have been chatting here, but each time WS moves, so do I. Im not about to lose the friends Ive made. Regardless of what server we are currently on makes no difference to me,just so long as we are on a server. Thats the important thing.

The flirting? Well, I dont much like it, but Ill be honest with you, when I have been offended by something said in the room, I just say...I find that offensive and I would appreciate it if you wouldnt talk like that anymore. Most of the time, the flirting person didnt even realize how what they said sounded like it did. They apologize and either stop or take their conversation 1-1.

As for the hosts themselves, there are several hosts I love dearly and would fight for in a heartbeat. I have met several of the hosts in person and I treasure them. Not because they are a host,but because they are a person just like I am.

Everday, you meet people in your life. You either like that person or you dont. Thats called human nature. If you dont like that person, you tend to steer clear of them. If you do like them, then you want to spend as much time with them as you can. Well the same holds true in a chatroom. (By the way, for me, WS is not "just a chatroom". Its where I can talk with some of favorite people I know.) If you dont care for a particular roomie or even a host.../ignore works real well. Yes, I too have roomies that I will miss because they dont come into our room anymore, but they know my email addy and they know where to find me..as I do them.
It hurts me to see that twinklewow is gone, I love her to pieces, I will miss her. I dont have any idea why she was fired or let go, but that really doesnt matter.

As far as Tammy is concerned, I wouldnt have her job for anything. She puts up with way too much stuff for me. I say youre a good woman Tammy. Whenever I have needed help, she has been there to provide the help I needed...thank you for that.

About the only complaint I have is the way that foul language is being used in the room. I dont like that at all, but I know how to tell that person....Excuse me, I dont like the language you are using. They can either stop cussing, or I can use ignore..its that simple.

I hope I havent sounded like Im rambling, I surely have meant to. Therefore, I will continue to come into WS. If something happens in there that I dont like, thats fine because I know the door swings to go out just like it swung to come inside.

[CAB220]

I have been following this thread without posting for such a long time. I see communication, and communication is good . Thats the first step!