WomensSpace

[AristaWOW]

PrincessArista thinks it's really sad that the Overheard folder was closed. We've gone so far into political correctness that we can't make fun of ourselves anymore.

[bitOme]

SPACE SPACE SPACE SPACE
(((((((((((( (AristaWOW) ))))))))))))

Its kinda like most things when the majority likes something the minority that may not changes all. It was a fun folder for most and a great idea.

I understand the position of those who had to remove it for the few, but most all were having a blast as we all do in "open" chat with the same things. Personally I don't understand the difference, but thats ok too. Thanks for the humor to laugh at ourselves for awhile in that folder.

/me pours AristaWOW a tabookoora...

[frozen5]

I too am very upset over the closing of the folder. I found it a great place to laugh at myself. Since when does the angry voice of a couple have the right to silence the happy lot!

[LiamFan!]

One does not create conversations that never happened by cutting and pasting together other people's words, with their names, and reassembling them.

It's not an issue of majority vs. minority, or 'political correctness;' it's an issue of right vs. wrong.

And there is nothing more politically correct than calling someone politically correct.

[WA114]

agrees with Liam, for what it's worth...

[susieBsnowflake]

/me didn't even realize the folder was gone......... Someone complained?

[Wolfie0ne]

It is indeed sad when a few can silence the many. I'm referring to those who complained about the Overheard folder and had it shut down.
I'm wondering: Did you who complained even READ the disclaimers at the start of the folder? It was stated that things would be 'taken out of context'...the result was posts full of random snippets of conversation linked together in a spontaneous way to create humor. In short, it was done IN FUN.
Is this what we've come to---no free thinking? no attempts at humor? no self-expression?
Nobody forced anybody to read that folder. If it offended some people, they should have posted their objections and given the rest of us a chance to respond. That's called a debate, and that's what adults do.
Part of what I love about my adopted country is its freedom of speech. So much for that. It's gotten so a person can't even post in a WOW host's folder without some self-appointed thought cop complaining that 'your posts are too personal' or 'you post too much' or 'I don't like you posting that stupid stuff'.
So be it. This is my last post in the folders. For the self-righteous out there: I promise not to say anything improper in the rooms either...wouldn't want to offend your rigid sense of moral propriety.

I never meant to start a war.

I am so sorry.

Some people were offended by a post. The folder was closed. Right or wrong, end of story.

I apologize if I offended anyone. I apologize if anyone failed to understand the spirit of the folder. I apologize if I failed to understand the spirit of WOW.

It's over now. Let's move on, K?

[Melynn]

Wolfie, the day I saw that folder open I knew it was going to lead to this very conversation. However, some people were having fun so I decided to ignore my personal feelings and beliefs and see if perhaps it could work.

Unfortunately, it didn't. Unfortunately, I waited until tonight to end the folder. However, you do need to understand that it isn't censorship at all! In fact, it's quite the opposite. While anyone who chats in a chat room needs to be aware that they can be logged, as the owner of these boards I made the decision that chat room conversations in or out of context, are not to be posted.

I do understand that it was all in good fun, but it is much too close to "Big Brother" watching you. And yes, while there was a disclaimer at the top of the discussion, anyone new to our boards might have made the decision not to chat in our rooms as anything they say could become "fair game."

It is not freedom of speech to post what someone might have said within what I view as the confines of four walls. No one needs to know who was in the chatroom and when, and what they may or may not have said.

Our chatrooms are a safe place to be. Safe from prying eyes, safe from bosses that may not know our sexual orientation or whether we chat when we're supposed to be working, etc.

We've had many creative folders in the past. In one, we had a long story going on, with people contributing a sentence or paragraph, etc. Completely a collective work of fiction, creative, humorous and a lot of fun. We have joke folders, we have all sorts of folders. You can laugh, you can cry, you can rant and you can rave. You can be creative as you choose to be. You just can't use chatroom conversations and names. That seems very reasonable to me.

[QuietWoman]

Censorship. Now there'a an excellent discussion topic.

Have you noticed what an incredibly powerful weapon that word can be? As soon as anyone is accused of censorship they are in a tight spot.

And yet, we accept all kinds of forms of "censorship" without any difficulties. This, for example, is a forum that has always tried to avoid using gratuitously dirty words. That's censorship too, in the sense that it is a limitation on what we choose to say.

For sure this is a forum which finds harmful words problematic, so that nobody in WOW would consider it acceptable to use racial slurs, or religious-based slurs. And we at least ought to try to not use anti-woman language, or so it seems to me ... All of this can also be characterised as "censorship" and yet all of this is useful and positive, for a women's forum that attmepts to be inclusive.

So, is censorship always a bad word? It seems to me that in a world where women are routinely labelled in ways which are harmful, whether it is because we are Black, because we have a faith, because we are lesbians, or simply because we are women, then maybe in that world some control on what language we use is not always so clearly problematic. Freedom of speech also means the freedom to hurt.

[topsinapod]

With freedom of speech comes responsibility. We can talk about the few appearing to cause the many to be censored. It happens all the time. Blacks would still have to sit in the back of the bus if the 'few' had kept silent. Lesbians and Homosexuals have virtually no rights to marriage and the protections that are enjoyed by the majority because the minority voice isn't strong enough, and the ones that could help fail to because they are in the comfortable majority.

It seems pretty simple to me actually. When our words, (even done in innocence and fun) cause others to be hurt then we need to examine what we're doing. We need to revisit the premise.

I do not believe that anyone ever intentionally hurt anyone in that folder but folks have been hurt nonetheless. Just because they are only a few do we take their hurt less seriously?

Sometimes it is better to end a thing than to continue it, knowing that others are being hurt.

[topsinapod]

((((((((((Wolfie)))))))))))) Don't make this your last post!!! You are needed here. We need ALL of our thoughts and ideas. That's what diversity is all about. We cannot debate and discuss if you stop debating and discussing.

[mary]

Is sad to hear that the folder was closed. It was a lot of fun to read. That is how I took it to be.. nothing very serious just all in fun. I can see both sides of the issue. What is fun for some ppl ofends others. {{{{{{ wolfie }}}}}} hun please do not be dicourged by what happined. I love reading your post. Some days they are the only thing that make me smile. Trust I can bet I am not the only one who feels this way. It is a wonderful gift to make some one smile.

[RazberrieTart]

I'll bet it was mine. Wouldn't you know it LOL I'll bet any money someone got irritated @ my post. Oh well. Like that'll be the last time I say something that ppl don't like 'shrug'. I do have a bit of a point to make, maybe a little rehashing ? I have a tendency to agree with Wolfie on this one, but since I don't know who complained or why, all I can do is make an educated guess. Yes the folder was meant in fun, it was a good idea. How many times have you gone into chat and someone has posted something similar in the room, from their own saved files ? That was meant in fun, and as far as I knew, no one seemed to get offended.
So yes, bringing it ot the boards to share with everyone who visits and may not be able to come to chat for whatever reason, good idea. Apparently something missed in the translation, someone felt that their typo or misread conversation shouldn't have left the room and they voiced their opinion on it. Possibly a better resolve might have been to take the poster and postee aside and possibly ask that the post be removed ? Which has been done before, if a post was deemed inappropriate for whatever reason, it was either edited or removed rather than the whole folder the post was in.
Now like I said I don't know who complained or why but these are just my observations. I think we should be able to feel comfortable when we go into the folders, comfortable enough to post what we want, but within the expected limitations of the forum (swearing, derogatory etc) and if we have a problem, rather than run (Wolfie, geez, don't let others keep you away from the folders, seems to me you gave similar advice to someone who wanted to leave for good b/c of some emails she got regarding her posts) stand up and say listen here I come here and until the head asks me to not post I ain't gonna stop. It's up to each and every one of you how you take this post, and how you take every other post in this entire forum. Oh, and here's the grains of salt you may need.
Tartie

[DACDjr]

Dac is still lost (sorry)