Deists and scientists: peaceful coexistence

kowalskil · February 17th, 2011, 10:04 PM

Deists and scientists: peaceful coexistence

I would very much like to know what people on this website think about peaceful coexistence between those who study our material world (scientists) and those who study our spiritual world (theologians). My attempt to write an essay on that subject failed, as you can see at:

OOPS, As a newbie, I am not allowed to post clickable links. You must create the link manually (from what is shown below), and paste it into your browser. But do not forget to remove asterisks. This post would be useless without a link.

ht*tp:*//csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/theology3.ht*ml

The webpage was prepared to generate a discussion. Those who post comments should refer to specific ?contributions,? as numbered (or to specific persons, as numbered at the beginning). This will simplify the discussion.

And let us keep in mind that the main topic is peaceful coexistence. Is it possible? Is it desirable? What should we do promote it? etc.

Thank you in advance,

Ludwik Kowalski (see Google and Wikipedia)
Professor Emeritus
Montclair State University
.
.

Elusive Unicorn · February 18th, 2011, 10:27 AM

Yes we can coexist peacefuly. It is all about being opened minded. I think alot of scientist have forgot to be opened minded and have closed off so many possablities. To them if they can not see, feel,or touch it is not real. You can not analze faith. You can try but I am not sure how well that will work. If we just resect each others views and beleifs plus keep an open mind to all the possablites it would be easier to have a peaceful coexistence. I hope I did not offend any open minded scientist out there. You are a rare a valued breed.

kowalskil · February 20th, 2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elusive Unicorn

Yes we can coexist peacefuly. It is all about being opened minded. I think alot of scientist have forgot to be opened minded and have closed off so many possablities. To them if they can not see, feel,or touch it is not real. You can not analze faith. ...

I believe that one can analyze and validate spirituality. But the methods validation/refutation must be different from those used by scientists. Unfortunately, I have nothing constructive to suggest. This has to be done by theologians, not scientists.
.
.

Jennifer23 · February 20th, 2011, 10:51 PM

Hi Kowalskil, and for the past 5 years or so, I've considered myself to be a Godian. So, I actually made up my own religion. But, I became so tired of the hypocrisy that goes on with the current religions, I decided to create my own. Basically, as a Godian, you believe in the Creator, but after that everything is speculation. Jesus may be the son of god, or a prophet from God. And God isn't Male or Female - God is above both.

I try each day to treat people nicely, because it comes back to you. Niceness spreads, whether it be from Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or whatever religion. So many wars have happened because of religious diffences. If everyone was a Godian, this wouldn't happen.
Do I sound like John Lennon?

JANE20/20 · March 22nd, 2011, 05:01 AM

Hi Kowalskil...I think that the two can co-exist peacefully....probably with heated discussions from time to time...but peaceful in the end....agreeing to disagree....going to school that laid a religious foundation for me....now I find that I have so many questions and have a more broader point of view as far as religion goes.....there were so many things left out of the Bible....just for instance dinosaurs....we have the fossils and know that they existed....and the skeletal remains of peoples from places long before 2000 yrs....

One of the last things that I read that the Egyptian ruins were thought to be 10,000 years old....there are so many questions I have personally....and then just looking at the world to day...there are so many things that I just don't understand...except for the fact that we...as human beings have created alot of this....if not all....of these current situations......

Intentionally or unintentionally....

Just thinking about the current situations in the world and thought being energy....what are we creating??.....and if it is true.... and we are contributing, and or creating this....then we need to be more conscious of our thoughts.....

Then there are the questions....how much of it is destiny?.....how much of our lives are we actively creating?.....

And we do have a certain amount of control over our lives....and the thing about thoughts being energy....positive and negative...and how you attract that...tape into it.....utilize it...that gets into a whole other area.....

My views about religion is not as traditional as some....I consider myself more spiritual....sometimes I feel that the Bible is a guide for how one should live their life....and there are many good points in it....for leading ones life...and good reasons why one shouldn't do this or that and looking at the world today...... there are so many things that happen that we can't explain....but there is definitely a higher power....

kowalskil · April 2nd, 2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer23

Hi Kowalskil, and for the past 5 years or so, I've considered myself to be a Godian. So, I actually made up my own religion. But, I became so tired of the hypocrisy that goes on with the current religions, I decided to create my own. Basically, as a Godian, you believe in the Creator, but after that everything is speculation. Jesus may be the son of god, or a prophet from God. And God isn't Male or Female - God is above both.

I try each day to treat people nicely, because it comes back to you. Niceness spreads, whether it be from Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or whatever religion. So many wars have happened because of religious diffences. If everyone was a Godian, this wouldn't happen.
Do I sound like John Lennon?

I like the term Godian. And yes, niceness is at the root of many religions.
.

Wolf_angel · May 2nd, 2011, 09:44 AM

Peaceful coexistance would be nice. However there are many that believe their religion is the right one. Yet quoting my cousin Murph "we are all trying to get to the top of the mountain just take different paths to get there." So one way is ok for some yet it depends on the individual. Hence my quote is "we are in the same church, just in different pews." So thus believing that others are absolutely righteous whereas others are blasphemous is another thing. Science is great for many things but understanding religion and etc using Science that basis things on fact is not workable.

Jennifer23 · May 3rd, 2011, 05:33 PM

Wolfie, your cousin Murph was right on. The boxer Muhammid Ali once said that even though he believed in Islam, everyone has their own name for God, whether it be God, Allah, Jehova, or whatever. He said that if you're a good person and do the things God would like you to do, you'll have your own path to Heaven. That's why I have a problem with the "born agains" out there.

Wolf_angel · May 4th, 2011, 08:26 AM

I understand what you said. However think on this, ok? There are those who are born again per se. THis is their way of reconnecting but not thru the way that put them off of what they had before. Many people get disillusioned over time with their religion or what they were taught growing up. Hence they look for what is right for them. We may not like it but understanding goes a long way. What works for some but not for all is what its all about. I have many cultures and religions that I have learned. With each one I have taken a bit of it to use in my own life as I believe is good. However it may not be so for anyone else. Hence, we strive to make our lives and etc better. Sort of like a diamond in the rough. It starts out as a piece of coal but over time it becomes a diamond smooth and polished. But the journey to get it there is what made it so. THat is the lesson I use for myself. Each person and situation we deal with in life can be good or bad but its what we do after that makes us into what we become. Sometimes its not good but othertimes it is. Thus we make mistakes but tis what we do after that makes the mistake worthwhile. For that alone can empower all of us. When I was a child I would cry buckets of tears. Then as I got older I would get mad and angry. Yet now reason and understanding helps me think things thru first. Thus whatever decision I do make is based on that. I hope not to offend but to share my own thoughts on this subject. Remember Life is a journey but the path we take is what can make it worthwhile as well as what we learn along the way. Hugs to all!

Jennifer23 · May 4th, 2011, 09:41 PM

Wolfie, I wasn't offended. I agree with everything you said. For me though, it's why people that have one religious belief don't take into consideration those that have other religious beliefs. It's religion, after all - and totally faith-based.

Wolf_angel · May 5th, 2011, 07:11 AM

Of course totally understandable. Like the man I met at the Auction aka local flea market in these parts. All he does is preach. Yet doesnt want to take into consideration of how or what has shaped people into what they are now. Hence not much understanding. How Native Americans dont want a Preacher shoving religion down their throats. Hence a bit of understanding love patience would go a long way. But its funny cause he cant stand my native sister Missy (past spat with her) yet wants to chat amicably with me! LOL Tis hilarious! LOL Hugs

Jennifer23 · May 6th, 2011, 09:17 PM

Wolfie, we're definitely on the same page. Religion should come from within our hearts and our personal prayers to GOD. We don't need the phonies out there that preach about it, but don't back that up by the way they live their lives.

sistergirl · May 6th, 2011, 10:42 PM

I normally stray from religious discussions but I see that I can relate to Jennifer in particular as a sister "Godian"... Love that! I never had a religious bringing up as a small child although we did honor the Christian holidays and that's as far as it went. I wanted

my children to have direction, something bigger than they to believe in and so enrolled them in to Sunday school and that led to confirmation. I was there for them at church on special events but am not a church goer per se...I strongly believe in the "Golden

Rule" and would hope that is or should be the foundation of any religion. There are those who attend their place of worship and go right back to living their negative life style once they leave the pew. So in total, I am a "Godian"...Brilliant Jennifer if I do say so...

Jennifer23 · May 7th, 2011, 09:25 PM

Sister, it's cool that you're a Godian now! So far it's me, a former Methodist, and a former Catholic, a former Jehova's Witness, a former Muslim, a former Baptist, and an agnostic! (she just liked my concept). I know they will all do their own religious things, but they all appreciate Godianism.

sistergirl · May 8th, 2011, 12:30 AM

I think the other term for this type of belief is "Agnostic"...correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that is the term as my mother is "Agnostic" aka Godian.

"a former Muslim". WOW! I always thought that once a Muslim, always a Muslim...learn something new every single day.

February 17th, 2011, 10:04 PM	#1
kowalskil Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 62	Deists and scientists: peaceful coexistence Deists and scientists: peaceful coexistence I would very much like to know what people on this website think about peaceful coexistence between those who study our material world (scientists) and those who study our spiritual world (theologians). My attempt to write an essay on that subject failed, as you can see at: OOPS, As a newbie, I am not allowed to post clickable links. You must create the link manually (from what is shown below), and paste it into your browser. But do not forget to remove asterisks. This post would be useless without a link. http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/theology3.ht*ml The webpage was prepared to generate a discussion. Those who post comments should refer to specific ?contributions,? as numbered (or to specific persons, as numbered at the beginning). This will simplify the discussion. And let us keep in mind that the main topic is peaceful coexistence. Is it possible? Is it desirable? What should we do promote it? etc. Thank you in advance, Ludwik Kowalski (see Google and Wikipedia) Professor Emeritus Montclair State University . . __________________ "Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality." My testimony is based on a diary kept between 1946 and 2004, in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA. Ask Google for Ludwik Kowalski.

February 18th, 2011, 10:27 AM	#2
Elusive Unicorn Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Utica,NY Posts: 806	Yes we can coexist peacefuly. It is all about being opened minded. I think alot of scientist have forgot to be opened minded and have closed off so many possablities. To them if they can not see, feel,or touch it is not real. You can not analze faith. You can try but I am not sure how well that will work. If we just resect each others views and beleifs plus keep an open mind to all the possablites it would be easier to have a peaceful coexistence. I hope I did not offend any open minded scientist out there. You are a rare a valued breed. __________________ Any and all typos I may make are in the name of science. My tests will be conclued when ever I get around to it.

May 2nd, 2011, 09:44 AM	#7
Wolf_angel A survivor of chaos Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Where my heart is Posts: 3,147	Peaceful coexistance would be nice. However there are many that believe their religion is the right one. Yet quoting my cousin Murph "we are all trying to get to the top of the mountain just take different paths to get there." So one way is ok for some yet it depends on the individual. Hence my quote is "we are in the same church, just in different pews." So thus believing that others are absolutely righteous whereas others are blasphemous is another thing. Science is great for many things but understanding religion and etc using Science that basis things on fact is not workable. __________________ May you walk in the shadow of the Great Spirit~To help others is a special gift we can either give or take~The more you give the more you receive~

May 4th, 2011, 08:26 AM	#9
Wolf_angel A survivor of chaos Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Where my heart is Posts: 3,147	LOL I understand what you said. However think on this, ok? There are those who are born again per se. THis is their way of reconnecting but not thru the way that put them off of what they had before. Many people get disillusioned over time with their religion or what they were taught growing up. Hence they look for what is right for them. We may not like it but understanding goes a long way. What works for some but not for all is what its all about. I have many cultures and religions that I have learned. With each one I have taken a bit of it to use in my own life as I believe is good. However it may not be so for anyone else. Hence, we strive to make our lives and etc better. Sort of like a diamond in the rough. It starts out as a piece of coal but over time it becomes a diamond smooth and polished. But the journey to get it there is what made it so. THat is the lesson I use for myself. Each person and situation we deal with in life can be good or bad but its what we do after that makes us into what we become. Sometimes its not good but othertimes it is. Thus we make mistakes but tis what we do after that makes the mistake worthwhile. For that alone can empower all of us. When I was a child I would cry buckets of tears. Then as I got older I would get mad and angry. Yet now reason and understanding helps me think things thru first. Thus whatever decision I do make is based on that. I hope not to offend but to share my own thoughts on this subject. Remember Life is a journey but the path we take is what can make it worthwhile as well as what we learn along the way. Hugs to all! __________________ May you walk in the shadow of the Great Spirit~To help others is a special gift we can either give or take~The more you give the more you receive~

May 5th, 2011, 07:11 AM	#11
Wolf_angel A survivor of chaos Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Where my heart is Posts: 3,147	Of course totally understandable. Like the man I met at the Auction aka local flea market in these parts. All he does is preach. Yet doesnt want to take into consideration of how or what has shaped people into what they are now. Hence not much understanding. How Native Americans dont want a Preacher shoving religion down their throats. Hence a bit of understanding love patience would go a long way. But its funny cause he cant stand my native sister Missy (past spat with her) yet wants to chat amicably with me! LOL Tis hilarious! LOL Hugs __________________ May you walk in the shadow of the Great Spirit~To help others is a special gift we can either give or take~The more you give the more you receive~

February 20th, 2011, 10:51 PM	#4
Jennifer23 Jennifer23 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,187	Hi Kowalskil, and for the past 5 years or so, I've considered myself to be a Godian. So, I actually made up my own religion. But, I became so tired of the hypocrisy that goes on with the current religions, I decided to create my own. Basically, as a Godian, you believe in the Creator, but after that everything is speculation. Jesus may be the son of god, or a prophet from God. And God isn't Male or Female - God is above both. I try each day to treat people nicely, because it comes back to you. Niceness spreads, whether it be from Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or whatever religion. So many wars have happened because of religious diffences. If everyone was a Godian, this wouldn't happen. Do I sound like John Lennon?

March 22nd, 2011, 05:01 AM	#5
JANE20/20 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 67	Hi Kowalskil...I think that the two can co-exist peacefully....probably with heated discussions from time to time...but peaceful in the end....agreeing to disagree....going to school that laid a religious foundation for me....now I find that I have so many questions and have a more broader point of view as far as religion goes.....there were so many things left out of the Bible....just for instance dinosaurs....we have the fossils and know that they existed....and the skeletal remains of peoples from places long before 2000 yrs.... One of the last things that I read that the Egyptian ruins were thought to be 10,000 years old....there are so many questions I have personally....and then just looking at the world to day...there are so many things that I just don't understand...except for the fact that we...as human beings have created alot of this....if not all....of these current situations...... Intentionally or unintentionally.... Just thinking about the current situations in the world and thought being energy....what are we creating??.....and if it is true.... and we are contributing, and or creating this....then we need to be more conscious of our thoughts..... Then there are the questions....how much of it is destiny?.....how much of our lives are we actively creating?..... And we do have a certain amount of control over our lives....and the thing about thoughts being energy....positive and negative...and how you attract that...tape into it.....utilize it...that gets into a whole other area..... My views about religion is not as traditional as some....I consider myself more spiritual....sometimes I feel that the Bible is a guide for how one should live their life....and there are many good points in it....for leading ones life...and good reasons why one shouldn't do this or that and looking at the world today...... there are so many things that happen that we can't explain....but there is definitely a higher power....

May 3rd, 2011, 05:33 PM	#8
Jennifer23 Jennifer23 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,187	Wolfie, your cousin Murph was right on. The boxer Muhammid Ali once said that even though he believed in Islam, everyone has their own name for God, whether it be God, Allah, Jehova, or whatever. He said that if you're a good person and do the things God would like you to do, you'll have your own path to Heaven. That's why I have a problem with the "born agains" out there.

May 4th, 2011, 09:41 PM	#10
Jennifer23 Jennifer23 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,187	Wolfie, I wasn't offended. I agree with everything you said. For me though, it's why people that have one religious belief don't take into consideration those that have other religious beliefs. It's religion, after all - and totally faith-based.

May 6th, 2011, 09:17 PM	#12
Jennifer23 Jennifer23 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,187	Wolfie, we're definitely on the same page. Religion should come from within our hearts and our personal prayers to GOD. We don't need the phonies out there that preach about it, but don't back that up by the way they live their lives.

May 6th, 2011, 10:42 PM	#13
sistergirl Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 648	I normally stray from religious discussions but I see that I can relate to Jennifer in particular as a sister "Godian"... Love that! I never had a religious bringing up as a small child although we did honor the Christian holidays and that's as far as it went. I wanted my children to have direction, something bigger than they to believe in and so enrolled them in to Sunday school and that led to confirmation. I was there for them at church on special events but am not a church goer per se...I strongly believe in the "Golden Rule" and would hope that is or should be the foundation of any religion. There are those who attend their place of worship and go right back to living their negative life style once they leave the pew. So in total, I am a "Godian"...Brilliant Jennifer if I do say so...

May 7th, 2011, 09:25 PM	#14
Jennifer23 Jennifer23 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,187	Sister, it's cool that you're a Godian now! So far it's me, a former Methodist, and a former Catholic, a former Jehova's Witness, a former Muslim, a former Baptist, and an agnostic! (she just liked my concept). I know they will all do their own religious things, but they all appreciate Godianism.

May 8th, 2011, 12:30 AM	#15
sistergirl Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 648	I think the other term for this type of belief is "Agnostic"...correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that is the term as my mother is "Agnostic" aka Godian. "a former Muslim". WOW! I always thought that once a Muslim, always a Muslim...learn something new every single day.